6.5 - Don't Be That Guy

"My son, be attentive to my wisdom; incline your hear to my understanding..." So begins the section of Proverbs 5-7 wherein the writer gravely warns the reader regarding the temptation to foolishness and sexual immorality. In this episode, we talk about the relevance these warnings have for Christian men today.

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Paul and Noah both preach and teach with the Cedar Park church of Christ in Cedar Park, TX. You can visit our site at: https://www.cedarparkchurchofchrist.org/

Transcript

Noah: 0:30

Well, good morning. Welcome back to the Stan Strong podcast. We're here in season six doing the Proverbs project. And I gotta say what a way to start the morning with the words, don't be that guy last week. We said, that's what we were going to be talking about. And Paul, I think it's only fair that we try to give them an idea off the, off the cuff right here at the beginning. What guy

Paul: 0:55

don't, don't be that guy. So we were taking it from the book of Proverbs there, there is three chapters that this are just packed full of some things that, that guys, we need to hear. So, don't be that guy. Who do we mean by that guy? Proverbs 5 and verse 1, pay attention to my wisdom, listen well to my words of insight. Proverbs 7, 1 and 2, remember what I say. Never forget what I tell you to do. Do what I say. And you will live. And then Proverbs 6 and verse 24, these commands and this teaching will keep you from the immoral woman, from the smooth tongue of an adulterous woman. Who is that guy? Well, according to Proverbs 5 and 6 and 7, The guy who doesn't listen to the wisdom in Proverbs that's designed to help us as men, to help him to stay away from the immoral woman, to, to avoid some sexual sins that are very serious and destructive. Who else is that guy? Stay in Proverbs, Proverbs seven here Noah, 21 through 27. I like this translation, Proverbs seven, 21 through 27. So she's, so we're talking about the immoral or immoral. She tempted him with her charms, and he gave in to her smooth talk. Suddenly, he was going with her like an ox on the way to be slaughtered, like a deer prancing into a trap where an arrow would pierce its heart. He was like a bird to a man. Going into a net, he did not stop to consider that his actions would cost him his life. And then he says this in verse 24 of Proverbs 7, So now pay attention to what I say. Do not let such a woman win your heart. Don't go wondering after her. She has been the ruin of many self assured men and caused the death of too many to count. Her house is the road to the grave. Her bedroom is the den of death. Don't be that guy. Secondarily, that guy is the overly confident guy who refuses to be honest in those areas that he knows are going to cause him to fall to these sexual sins, to be seduced. He doesn't stop to consider. Yeah. He doesn't realize that, that this, this seductress woman or the, these enticing sorts of temptations are going to cause him death.

Noah: 3:28

Yeah, so what we find in this section is Okay, we we read this section. We know we don't want to be this guy I mean, I don't think i've met anyone that would read proverbs 5 through 7 and go Actually, I kind of want to be that guy, you know we know we don't want to be that guy The the question that should immediately Be raised in our minds is well, how do I avoid being that guy? Right? I mean, how do I make sure not to go down that path and The the beautiful thing about the proverbs and especially this section of the proverbs is that's kind of the point Is this isn't just a warning. It's warning that comes with instruction Here's, here's what you ought to be doing. Here's how you ought to act and how you ought to live to avoid this path. You don't want to be that guy. And it starts with you already read Proverbs chapter five, verses one and two. When he, when the writer saying, be attentive to my wisdom, incline your ear to my understanding, don't be the guy who doesn't. Ask for or listen to advice. This whole section of Proverbs opens with that reminder to heed advice, listen to wisdom and to counsel. And if we're the type of person that doesn't want to hear advice and just wants to go our own way and do our own thing, we're already started down this path.

Paul: 4:50

Yeah. You know, Verse 23 in Proverbs five, you, you talk about don't be that guy. And you're right. I mean, nobody wants to be that guy, but still, sometimes we are. Proverbs five, verse 23. He will die for lack of discipline led astray by his own great folly. There's two things there. Obviously, the lack of discipline. That's so, I don't wanna be that guy. Okay? I've gotta practice some self-control here. Mm-Hmm. I've gotta guard my heart. I've gotta protect my thoughts. I've gotta control what I can control. We've got to exercise self control in some areas. And then the other thing is he calls it great folly. They're not trying to be overly harsh, but I mean, man, we do stupid things, and I'm a part of the week. We were capable of stupid things. And, and so this utter foolishness and, and I'm not, I'm not trying to be overly harsh. And, and sound very judgmental, but again, it's back to the, listen to advice, listen to counsel and wisdom. If you stayed in the Proverbs, you're getting it from the Lord and he's given us nuggets of wisdom that's, that's for a good to protect us. Now, look, there is no Proverb. I can't open up the Proverbs and say, he that eateth lunch with his female secretary is making a stupid decision,

Noah: 6:10

right?

Paul: 6:11

It's not there. In those words, but there's some wisdom there that's telling me I need to be careful. So if I'm that kind of guy that says, who? Let me figure out and try to plan a way that I always end up at the copier or at the coffee pot When this woman is there at the same time coincidence. No, it's not.

Noah: 6:31

Yeah,

Paul: 6:31

and when I do that i'm doing something stupid

Noah: 6:34

Yeah, yeah and I think that that's the appropriate word and Again, this this episode is largely for the guys and I feel comfortable calling myself out as a guy and other guys We're stupid sometimes we're foolish and Obviously, as we've already said, one way of being foolish is not listening to advice, but There's more than just that when it comes to being foolish. We, we trick ourselves, we fool ourselves into thinking that we're not participating in what we're participating in. It's one thing to be foolish enough not to listen to advice. It's another thing to be, to allow ourselves to be so foolish as to ignore the obvious. And And that's, that's part of what in, in Proverbs 6, he's getting at in verses 27 and 28. Can a man carry fire next to his chest and his clothes not be burned? Or can one walk on hot coals and his feet not be scorched? Listen, you, you can't fool yourself out of that. You may be able to say, you may think differently. And we do think to ourselves, well, it's not that big a deal. I'm not going to do this. I'm not going to do that. We're carrying fire next to our chest and we're acting like we're not going to feel the effects of that.

Paul: 7:47

Right. Right. I mean, it's, it's the language is graphic. It's intentional. It's God trying to get our attention as men. And look, I want to offer this I want to be careful in how I say this. But, as men, we need to address each other with courtesy and respect, not in a condescending way as if to say, hey, I'm not capable of falling this way. I can't understand why you would make such a stupid decision. Look, I'm not, I'm not allowing for. The foolishness or the stupidity, but I'm aware of the possibility of it, right? So we're we're working together not against one another and and we're getting our cues. We're getting our wisdom We're getting our help from the Lord and I've offered this to men go back especially to the married men again, look at the covenant, look at the wife of your youth, look, look, look inside of that relationship that God has brought you together with her. And it's a beautiful thing. And inside that Proverbs 5 passage. The text is, drink water from your own well, running water from your own well and cistern. Let them be yours alone, never to be shared with strangers, and rejoice in the wife of your youth. May you ever be captivated by her love. Why be captivated by an adulteress? Why embrace the bosom of another man's wife? And so, sometimes, To help in, in what gets us into trouble in the sexual arena is to go back and say, Hey, there's some weak areas. There's some things that I need. We need to address in marriage. I'm not saying that's a comfortable thing or an easy thing, but at times it's a necessary thing and the Bible does that. Do you need to get some outside help? Most likely. Do you need to get counsel from others? Most likely. But the marriage, God gave the marriage bed for a reason.

Noah: 9:54

Yeah, yeah. It's so, it is so tempting to think of ourselves as the exception. So we think we're the ones who can who can carry the fire without getting burned or we think we're the ones that are the exception. Well, I understand that normally we're supposed to rejoice in the life of our youth and we're supposed to drink water from our own cistern, but there's all of these reasons why I feel like this is, you know, this is justifiable or this is that I'm the exception here. I, these are exceptional circumstances. No, that, I mean, the, the Proverbs are not there for us to draw out how we can be the exceptions for these rules. They're here to warn us and to instruct us. You, this is how you need to be living. This is how you need to be conducting yourself. You need to be discerning. And, and that's when we're just saying, don't be that guy. Don't be that guy that thinks. We can get as close to the line without failing, without falling. You know, some guys are risk takers. I'm, I'm not a huge risk taker. But I, I I understand that impulse to be risk takers. And there are some areas of our life where risks are necessary. They're productive. You know, they're the difference between success and failure. Sexual purity is not an area of life where risks are to be taken. And the Proverbs writer, I feel like points this out on different occasions here. I mean, chapter five, verse eight, he says, keep your way far from her and do not go near the door of her house. And in chapter seven, And when he's doing the narration, he talks about this simple man, this young man, lacking sense and in verse eight, he says, passing along the street near her corner, taking the road to her house in the twilight in the evening at the time of night and darkness. And we're the outside observers and we're going, well, yeah, what does he

Paul: 12:00

expect? Right.

Noah: 12:02

Right. Well, the thing is. Sometimes we trick ourselves into thinking that we can, we can push it this far. We can take these risks. The Proverbs writer says, don't take the risk. You don't need to do it. And yet we, we still like to push that boundary.

Paul: 12:19

Yeah. I read this years ago. No, it's found my way into a lot of my notes in conversations I've had with men. Don't let short term pleasure, pleasure, don't let short term pleasure bind, blind you to long term consequences. Short term pleasure blind you to long term consequences. What do I mean? Look, as men, Our, our brains, and that's a subject that's beyond my pay grade, but there's a sense in which this thing is like a drug. This thing that we took in, this experience that we had, what we did, that we, we clearly should not have. In a moment of weakness, we entered this world and it was a pleasurable thing. Sin is pleasurable, but for a time or season. I mean, if, if there was no pleasure in sin. We wouldn't be sinning in these areas. So I'm just going to leave it at that. But what he's trying to tell us in Proverbs 7, or what he is telling us is, look, if you flirt with temptation, if you go back to that thing that, that gave you a sense of pleasure temporarily, you're going to have to go back again and again and again, and then you end up. Reaping something that you never wanted to reap. Dealing with the consequences, consequence that you never wanted. I mean, we say, don't be that guy. Nobody's waiting in line saying, Hey, I would like my marriage to be destroyed. I'd like to lose my job, lose respect of my brethren, on, on, on. And that's exactly what he's telling us in Proverbs 5. Run from this woman. Don't go near the door of her house. Because if you do, here's what he says in Proverbs 5 and verse 9. You will lose your honor. And hand over to merciless people, everything you achieved in life. Strangers are now going to obtain your wealth and someone else will enjoy the fruit of your labor. I mean, you never thought you'd lose your job. You never thought you'd go bankrupt. You never thought you'd take your life. Suicide. Or afterward you will groan in anguish when disease comes to your body. You never thought you'd be in the doctor's office and having to, to, to take this, take this medicine. And you would say, Oh, if I just hadn't hated discipline, if I hadn't just thought I need to have my own way, it's not a big deal. And then he says, Oh, why didn't you listen to your teachers? Why didn't you pay attention to those who gave you instructions? You've come now to the brink of utter ruin. And now you must face public disgrace. And that story still plays out. And again, don't be that guy. We don't want to be that guy, but Solomon is telling us how sometimes we can be.

Noah: 15:05

Yeah, absolutely. You know, something that strikes me in these chapters, since so much of five, six, and seven has to do with. The, the sexual temptations that men face. It's interesting that in here, there are pockets of other admonitions that I think are centered on, on men. Primarily and it, it reminds us that our sexual temptations do not happen in a vacuum,

Paul: 15:32

right?

Noah: 15:33

There are other aspects of who we are. There are other admonitions that the Proverbs writer has for us that while not directly connected to sexual temptation they, they do address who we are, our character. What we're about, how we work, et cetera. And those things can influence and affect our discipline in this, in, in the sexual arena as well. I mean, one larger section that that comes to mind is when in chapter six, he there's the whole go to the aunt O sluggard, consider her ways and be wise without having any chief officer or ruler. She prepares her bread in summer and gathers her food and harvest. How long will you lie there, O sluggard? When will you arise from your sleep? A little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to rest, and poverty will come upon you like a robber, and want like an armed man. Well, clearly when we're reading that, that's not directly speaking to sexual temptation. It's speaking to the idea of being a diligent man. Don't be that guy who has no direction. Who, who, and don't, don't mishear me. I'm not saying it's not okay to be uncertain about, Oh, what do I want to do for a longterm career? That's not what this is talking about. What this is talking about, regardless of whether or not you want to, you know what you want to do for the rest of your life. This is about knowing how you want to do it. You want to do it with diligence not with laziness or procrastination or aimlessness. Cause even when we're uncertain about some things, we can be diligent and hardworking. Another way of putting that we can be disciplined. And that's part of what this theme is in five through seven is being men of discipline. That's going to affect how we work. It's going to affect how we address sexual temptation as well.

Paul: 17:20

Yeah. Amen. Amen. You know, we, we just came off the tongue. And I think we ended the tongue by saying we got to deal with the heart. Same thing applies when we're dealing with these sexual sins. That getting caught in the cords of your sins, I mean, just being overwhelmed by this sin leads to that sin, and that sin leads to two more sins, and then we're in over our head and if we, if we don't guard the heart, if we're not with all diligence, that sounds like a lot of Proverbs 4, and that's verse 23. And here's a point I want to make, when we talk about, as the wise man does so much about guarding the heart, paying attention to the thoughts that we allow to take seed, to take root in our mind adultery doesn't begin in the bed. It begins in the mind and Jesus addressed to that, addressed to that, spoke that in Matthew 5, verses 27 or so through about verse 30. And so we need to realize that there's certain sins, like fornication and adultery, that we should not, as men, view as oh moments.

Noah: 18:29

Yeah.

Paul: 18:29

Or just snuck up on me.

Noah: 18:30

Right.

Paul: 18:31

There, there's premeditation there, there's, there's some thought, there's a thought process there. So this concept of, of unfaithfulness, this adultery it, it, it doesn't begin in the bed, but in the mind.

Noah: 18:45

Yeah. And this whole section in the end should be a reminder to us. that these are things that are common to the human experience and especially the human experience as a man. They were written about thousands of years ago. These warnings, these, this wisdom has been passed down for generation after generation. This is, this is not unique. We are not we, we are without excuse. If we see generation after generation offering this kind of wisdom, and then we, we still say, ah, I don't want to hear it. That goes back to five versus one and two. I don't want to hear it. If we say we don't want to hear it. Well, there's, there's not much that, that scripture is going to be able to help us with. Certainly not, certainly not this area of our lives. If we just are unwilling to listen to the wisdom. That's in this book.

Paul: 19:44

Yeah, that is a highlight verse. We we've stated already this podcast. I don't want to just beat a dead horse here, but this led astray by his own great folly, Proverbs five and verse 23. That's in the context of this guy who ends up losing everything and he didn't want to, because he didn't pay attention. He didn't listen. And this, this, we do, I said, we do stupid things. We think in ways that are not, that are not sensible. We've gone through this water. We're 20 minutes into this. And neither one of us have ever mentioned the seriousness, the reality of what pornography is doing. Yeah. But we can't, we shouldn't have this kind of discussion in a delicate way, a sensible way without talking about the damage that pornography is doing in our homes and our marriages and in our churches. And again, don't be that guy. Nobody wants to lose their marriage, lose respect, lose everything. But we, we, we make as men some very foolish choices sometimes. And you know, I, I don't need, we don't need to say pornography is wrong.

Noah: 20:53

Right.

Paul: 20:53

Most guys get it, but at times we offer, we can justify, well, it's, it's, it's this kind of porn or it's that kind of porn, or it's only one time, or it's only been a few times or look, how does, how does a guy get to a point where he's so, he's so consumed by these images and he has been in this world for so long that what is abnormal, he now accepts as normal.

Noah: 21:19

Mm. Hmm.

Paul: 21:20

Maybe it started by just watching some things on cable TV at 8 o'clock or 9 o'clock at night. Yeah. That no Christian man has any business taking that into his mind. And it's, it's, we, there's great folly in that.

Noah: 21:35

Yes. Yeah. You know, it's interesting. We, we have trouble thinking forward to that end point, right? We have trouble seeing the consequences ahead of what we do sometimes. And it, in the middle of this section five through seven, there's the, The kind of famous section, there are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him. And there's a whole list of things in there, right? A haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood. But in the middle of it, there's a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil. We read that and we think, well, that's not us. We're not making evil plans. We're not running towards evil. Well, maybe not yet, but this type of, when we are, when we have a lack of discipline in our lives and especially in the area of sexual purity, and I think this is especially poignant in the, in the context of pornography, we start in one place. And it twists us over time until we begin to seek it out. We begin to make these plans. How can I get away with this? How can I accomplish this without consequences? We're no longer unaware of the consequences. We know what they are. How can we do this without consequences? That's how we get to this point where we were making, we're devising wicked plans that we have, we have feet that run toward evil and the, the inoculation for that is in the following verses. And it's another reminder. There are so many reminders through Proverbs to do this. It's another reminder. My son, my son. Keep your father's commandment and do not forsake your mother's teaching. Bind them on your heart, tie them around your neck. What's the picture we're seeing? There's a restoration to the basic idea of what's being talked about here. You have to listen to the teaching. Otherwise you'll get twisted by the sin.

Paul: 23:49

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. There, there's, there's so many things out there, technology, you know, we take times in podcast and, and we beat up technology and say technology can be such a dangerous thing. And it can, but look, there are some positives to technology. One of the positives to technology as it relates to this conversation on don't be that guy and avoiding the sexual sins that can really do a lot of harm to us. There's no excuse or very little reason why I should end up in a movie and sitting down and watching nudity. There's a way that you can look up that movie and know, is there nudity? What's the extent of it? And I'm not trying to be everybody else's conscience, but I want to be clear on this decision. A Christian male has no business sitting in a movie. with nudity of any kind, shape, form, or fashion. And I shouldn't be that guy who says, I didn't know it was going to be there. Right. There's a way to know.

Noah: 24:57

Right.

Paul: 24:58

There's a way to know. Don't give yourself credit and say, well, I can handle it. Or my wife was okay with it. Those two are irrelevant to our discussion on Proverbs. What does God say?

Noah: 25:09

Yeah.

Paul: 25:09

What's to

Noah: 25:11

be men who are humble. and recognize our own limitations. He wants men that are honest, who pursue justice, who are compassionate, who are innocent and holy, and who are seeking peace. And if we want to be those kinds of men, we have to recognize the wisdom of these Proverbs. We have to draw very practical boundaries for ourselves. I have to do it for myself. You have to do it for yourself. Anyone listening. That's your responsibility. What God wants from you is for you to be humble and compassionate and innocent and holy. How can we take steps to do that in this context? That's part of what Proverbs 5 through 7 talks about.

Paul: 26:01

Yeah, amen. So we're going to go next. I'm giving the title away, Lord willing, for the, for the next. So this one was don't be that guy. The next one is don't be that gal.

Noah: 26:13

So,

Paul: 26:13

I mean, I can say this because everybody's going to pick on me. We've said some things today, this week to guys. We're going to say some things. We're going to let proverbs, I should say reveal some things to a female audience, to women. Let me say this at the end, since we've been talking about in the event that someone doesn't get this next one on, don't be that gal, or it's several weeks or months before they listen to it, but you've heard the sensitivity, the seriousness of today's message and it's heavy. Today's is a heavy message. What we want is what God wants. If, if, if there's a man out there, if, if it is your father, if it is your brother, if it is your husband, if it is your son, what we want is what God wants. And what God wants in this is he wants restoration and he wants healing. He wants help for the person that's caught in the cords of their own sexual sins.

Noah: 27:07

Yeah. Amen.

Paul: 27:08

So what we're not looking for, yes, accountability is absolutely essential. They've gotta be willing to listen to change, to make amends, to be held accountable. All of those things are important. Don't be that gal, I promise you, because this is in the wisdom literature. Nagging and constant fault finding does not soften a person's heart to bring them to a point where they can be restored.

Noah: 27:35

Yeah. Yeah.

Paul: 27:37

Well, I love you for saying that, but that's true.

Noah: 27:39

Yeah. Yeah. And on that note, we're, we're on our longest episode of this season yet, but I think we kind of expected that might be the case with an episode titled, Don't Be That Guy. So our prayer is that this study of Proverbs is, is beneficial to those listening and encouraging and challenging. For those who are listening, that is the purpose of this podcast is to build us up together to help us see how we can serve Christ better and pursue a life that reflects his image in all we do in every aspect of our life. So our prayer is that between now and the next time that we get to be together, you will continue to stand strong.