6.12 - Principles of Parenting, Part 1

The Proverbs offer a multitude of wisdom regarding the purpose, value, and practical effects of parenting. In this episode, we discuss the role of wisdom in parenting as well as the importance of having the right perspective toward parenting.

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Paul and Noah both preach and teach with the Cedar Park church of Christ in Cedar Park, TX. You can visit our site at: https://www.cedarparkchurchofchrist.org/

Transcript

Noah: 0:30

Well, good morning and welcome back to the Stan Strong podcast. We're coming off a two parter and we're moving on to episode 12. And as we talked about at the end of last episode, we're going to be talking about principles of parenting from the Proverbs today, there's three Ps for you, Paul and Paul's our fourth P Paul talking on the principles of parenting from Proverbs. And I'm really looking forward to this. I think we've mentioned this a few different ways in a few different times, I think one of the advantages of this kind of a format is we're in very different areas of our lives right now. Your children are all grown. My children are far from being grown. Although I still can't believe how old my oldest is getting, how big and. The conversations we're having and that kind of thing, all of that to say. The Proverbs are ripe with information and instruction for parents in every stage of life. But I think especially in the stage of life where we have an active hand in training and instruction and discipline. So I'm really looking forward to all the good things that you have to share with us today, Paul.

Paul: 1:39

Oh, wow. No, this is called the Proverbs project for a reason, because we want the Lord to do the speaking. We want to see what Proverbs has to say, but you're right. I'm looking in the rear view mirror. You are not. I get to look through the rear view mirror and there's, there's, there's the good and bad to that. The good being, you know, it's kind of like a, ah, the, the, maybe I shouldn't say bad, but, but sometimes the. Discouraging it. It's they're all they're out of the house. Yeah, and you know, we're all keenly aware of Mistakes we've made and that's part of parenting. You can't go back and do it all over again Yeah, you get to do it one time And and you know, even though they're out of the house There's a sense in which you are still parenting but not like when they're under Your roof under your charge. So yeah, I got to share this Noah, because Amy and I remember years ago and all three of our children were still at home. And we were on a trip and Amy and I saw a bumper sticker. It said, I can handle anything. I have children. And I thought, oh, well, I get that now. I get that. But parenting from the Proverbs, there's a lot of good stuff there.

Noah: 2:50

There, there is you know, when I was getting ready for this, there was, there were a couple of passages that jumped out to me as either being passages that I should bring up early or late. And maybe the answer is both. So I'm, I'm going to bring up a couple things real quickly here at the beginning, and I'll admit this is coming from my perspective. As a young parent, the reason these passages jump out to me, I think is because I'm in the throes of parenthood and especially of small children. One of them is Psalm 127. So we're immediately going to go out of the Proverbs for a moment. Psalm 127 has a lot of good family related wisdom in there. But what I first want to focus on is, Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb, a reward, like arrows in the hand of a warrior are children of one's youth. Blessed is the man who fills his quiver with them. When I was a kid and I would read that, it made perfect sense. Like, you know, you think, well, of course my parents are happy to have me. And this, and the sad truth is that there are children who don't experience that, that natural assumption of affection and, and enjoyment. But also that's extra important to me now because I recognize that there are days Where it is challenging to keep that in perspective that these are these are precious souls These are blessings from god that i've been entrusted with as a parent and yes, there's frustration No parent denies that there's frustration. There's difficulty. There's stress. There are there are days where You just want to pull your hair up And so this is a really important Concept I think to get in early is that children are a blessing even when they're difficult.

Paul: 4:44

I've said this oftentimes, they're a blessing, they're not a burden. And that's the point of the wisdom in Proverbs is it's designed to help us to see how that, how that we can turn them into this blessing, how that. By the time that they leave our home, we'll see a passage later that we see this as a time of joy and peace, not as a time where we're reminded of the shame that they brought to us because there wasn't the training being done in that house. Elizabeth Stone, there was a book I read no years ago, Elizabeth Stone said having a child is to decide forever to have your heart go walking around outside your body. And as the longer you parent, the more you be. And you realize exactly what all is involved in that. And you're right. I, I was looking at, before you even talk about specifics in Proverbs Proverbs 24, three and four, by wisdom, a house is built through understanding it is established through knowledge. The rooms are now filled with rare and beautiful treasures. You've got wisdom, understanding, and knowledge, and that's where we started in the Proverbs project.

Noah: 5:48

Right.

Paul: 5:49

That's really what this journey is all about. But he, he, I think he's dealing with the progression and he says, okay, we're, we're building, we're establishing and we're filling. And that's, that's a journey that every parent takes. The question is, are we going to go on this journey and get our instructions and counsel from the Lord or from the world?

Noah: 6:08

Right.

Paul: 6:09

The self, you know, proclaimed experts whose methods are unproven and certainly I believe unbiblical.

Noah: 6:15

Yeah.

Paul: 6:15

And so one of the passages in Proverbs, I like this, Proverbs 11 and verse 14, where there is no guidance, the people will fall, but in abundance of counselors, there is victory. He doesn't just say, In counsel, there is victory. So we could talk about what kind of counsel, but the point I think he's pressing there, Noah, is the abundance of counseling or counselors. So I've, I've said to parents and Amy and I did this, you're going to find yourself just stumped. You're going to say, what, what do I do next? Why is this not working? I've been reading the Proverbs. I'm, I'm interested in what the Lord says through scripture. But wisdom, understanding, I mean, wow, this child is strong willed, or wow, wow, this child is much more difficult than the, than the first or the second. And you make a phone call or you go to someone's living room and you sit down for a while and, and you don't just make one phone call. You don't just talk to one trusted source. You talk to many trusted wise sources who've already raised their kids. Then blend all that together as it complements the word and add to it prayer. That's a pretty good formula.

Noah: 7:25

Yeah. There, there is, especially for people like ourselves who are in the context of a of a vibrant local community. group of Christians, a local church like this. There's, there's a starting point right there. There's an abundance of, of counselors. And like you said, you, all of those things have to be filtered through the wisdom of scriptures, but we are, we are not lacking for, for good influences. We're not lacking for examples and we're certainly not lacking for, for counselors. And I think, I think that your, your point there is very well taken. And. reminding us just from the get go that this is, this is something that's going to only be blessed by wisdom. It's only going to be improved by understanding and knowledge that we find in scripture that goes back to Psalm 127. I'll step out of the Proverbs one more time. The very first verse of Psalm 127, unless the Lord builds the house, those who labor. excuse me, those who build it, labor in vain. The idea is we've got to come back to, to God's principles. We've got to be building on his foundation. Otherwise we're not building anything that's going to, that's going to last. And it's certainly not going to hold the value. That, that God can, God can imbue into our homes.

Paul: 8:42

Yeah. Amen to that. So here, here's a good place. Probably when you talk about parenting from the Proverbs, this is a passage that comes up very early on People have heard it and heard it so many times. It's Proverbs 22 and verse six. When I start this people who are listening they're going to be able to finish it. Proverbs 22 verse six, train up a child in the way he should go. And everybody's finishing it.

Noah: 9:07

When

Paul: 9:08

he is old, he will not depart from it. And look, a lot of. Ridiculous things have been said about that proverb. A lot of wrong headed things that become quite honestly, very discouraging to parents have come out of this proverb. That is men giving their advice here. And the point I want to make is instead of focusing on the second part, when he's old, he'll not depart from it. I'll just say about that. This is a proverb and God has unruly children. All right. But. Focus on the first part, train up a child. So we're going to talk about training and Proverbs talks about training and what's involved in that and what it should look like. And, but he says in the way he, or the way she, so as it relates to that child and the way they should go, I mean, if I tried to make my Ashley, Take the same route as my Caleb or my Caleb, the same path as my Hannah. Now look, serving the Lord and putting the Lord first in their life, that applies to every child. But look, don't, don't try to push one child to be what they're not inclined to be. You're going to frustrate, you're going to discourage the child. So there's a component here to this in the way he should go in the way she should go. All right. Which way is that? You know, what, what is best for this child? What do they have a natural bent toward? What can be easily developed or what am I seeing now at the age of five? What, what do we nurture in that child? Some of that sometimes it gets missed, Noah, I think in that Proverbs 22 and verse six.

Noah: 10:45

Yeah. And, and like you said, there's sometimes I think some misapplication and misinterpretation of the second part of it. Instead of appreciating it for what it is really talking about and that is that we are When we are training our children, we are also equipping them You you've already mentioned you know your children You're looking in the rearview mirror as far as having them under your your roof and having daily, you know these daily interactions and opportunities to instruct When we are in that stage of life We are in an equipping stage of life. We are instructing our children. We are equipping them for the future, and that's going to take time. So the idea is, as they're young, we're giving them the instruction and the tools necessary so that when they are no longer in the same way under our tutelage, under our guardianship, the results will still be there. And again, as a proverb, as a truism. The equipping takes time, and it yields results over time. We're, as parents, we're playing a long game. Yes, I like

Paul: 11:58

that.

Noah: 11:59

We're not looking for overnight results. If you get an overnight fix for a behavioral problem, my guess is, it's not going to be a long term fix. It takes time, it takes progress and, and we may see some leaps and bounds of growth or change or maturity at different points in our children's lives, but in, in the end, we're playing a long game. We're trying to equip them, we're trying to train them now so that they will be God fearing and God glorifying. in the ways that He has blessed them later.

Paul: 12:35

Right, right. I appreciate you adding that to it because again, I want everybody, we want everybody to understand in this that absolutely in Proverbs 22, six, along with every other principle in the Proverbs that helps us in training and raising up our kids is absolutely All children need correction, instruction, rules, and boundaries, and God ordained laws. I mean, all of that's part of the training, but I like knowing you kept talking about the long run. You know, I've offered this to parents because it was offered to me. So this is not my insider, my wonderful wisdom in this. But somebody told Amy and I years ago y'all be parents, don't try to be that child's best friend. And some people hear that and say, well, wait a minute, are you not supposed to be a friend of your child? The point is when you're, when you're encouraging, be a parent, not your child's best friend. It gets back to your concept about the long run. We need to focus on their training in the long run rather than being liked in the short run.

Noah: 13:34

Yeah.

Paul: 13:34

Because I promise you, there are going to be days when you're kids don't like you,

Noah: 13:39

right?

Paul: 13:40

And that's because of where they are. They're being developed. I mean, cause so if they don't get what they wanted, they don't like you because you're not letting them have what they want. Right. And what most of the kids in the world, parents allow them to do whatever they want to do when their rules in your home and they don't like the rules, they're not going to like you. And you know what? You'll get your hugs and kisses later.

Noah: 13:59

And

Paul: 14:00

that is true. That's not a hard and fast rule, but you and just trying to do what the Lord wants us to do and instill these values in the hearts of our children to draw our kids closer to God, you get your hugs and kisses later.

Noah: 14:15

Yeah. I mean, you think about that from a spiritual perspective, I believe it's Hebrews chapter 12. I don't have it in my notes, but. I believe Hebrews chapter 12 is where it talks about God as a father who disciplines his children and all discipline for the moment is unpleasant, but in the end it yields a peaceable fruit of righteousness. And that is such an important principle for us as parents. I like, I like the Paul version. We get our, we get our hugs and kisses later. But yeah, absolutely. If we're going to parent like our father parents, then we're going to need to recognize there are going to be times where there's uncomfortable and unpleasant discipline that has to take place. I think, brings us into probably what a lot of people expect from a Principles of Parenting episode from the Proverbs is stuff about not just instruction, but then discipline in, in conjunction with that, with that instruction. And something that I think is made very clear in the Proverbs is that if, if we're going to instruct our children, then we need to expect them to obey those instructions.

Paul: 15:25

Yes.

Noah: 15:26

That is, that is the, the prime expectation from a parent to a child is obedience. You need to obey my instructions. Proverbs chapter six, verse 20 says, my son, keep your father's commandment and forsake not your mother's teaching. And the following verses have some really interesting Things that we could flesh out if we had more time. I don't know that we're going to have time for that today, but I think that's such a helpful verse for reframing commandments and instruction and teaching of parents. It is not intended just to be informational. It's intended to be obeyed.

Paul: 16:02

Yes. You know that Proverbs 29, 15 The rod and reproof gives wisdom, but a child who gets his own way brings shame to his mother, and we'll talk about that rod and reproof Cause that fits under the, the, the concept of the discipline, the training, both wrought and reproofed. But he makes a point, a child who gets his own way. I mean, so what we're doing in, in training that child, in correcting that child, in setting rules and boundaries for that child, it's for that child's good. And we understand not every child recognizes that, but the expectation ought to be one of. Obedience. I mean, I don't have rules that you can just ignore. Right. We, we have things that, that we expect from you. And so there's a consequence as a result of you just saying, I don't want to do it.

Noah: 16:53

Right. Or

Paul: 16:53

I don't like it. And so, and the obedience needs to be, we're not just say, well, I'm interested in compliance. Right. Well, In the training of that child, it's the compliance or the obedience. I called it both right action with right attitude. It's possible to, in the developing of that child, to get them to do what you want. I mean, Think about the prison system.

Noah: 17:18

Yeah.

Paul: 17:19

Prisoners are being, they're doing what they're told to do, whether they like it or not. That's not, that's not the home. Right. By wisdom, by understanding, by knowledge, we're looking for, for the Lord's wisdom in this. And so in developing the heart of that child, this is for your good. Yeah. And when you, when you resist that, when you kick against that, attitude's bad. It's not just right action. It's also right attitude.

Noah: 17:45

Absolutely. So Paul, just a moment ago, you said something that I think is, is really important. You talked about how. We are doing this for our children's good. And there's so much more that we could talk about with specific principles from Proverbs. And so we're going to do that in part two of principles of parenting, but having that underlying idea in our minds of this is for our children's good. It's not for our convenience. It's not just because we'll stop doing that because it's annoying to me because it makes my life difficult. It's. This is a responsibility we have to, to pursue this for their own good. Parenting is not an exercise in being arbitrary. Now, I'm not saying we can't, as parents, sometimes make an arbitrary rule because it's what we think is best for our family. But that's not, the purpose is not to be arbitrary. The purpose is is to be careful and thoughtful. And that does bring us back to Proverbs 6, which we just read a verse from a moment ago, and I think it's worth reading a little bit more as we're wrapping up this episode. When he says to his son, keep your father's commandment, forsake not your mother's teaching just a couple of verses later, Talking about the instruction and the teaching. He says the commandment is a lamp and the teaching a light and the reproofs of discipline are the way of life. And then he goes on to make specific application to preserve you from the evil woman, from the smooth tongue of the adulterous. And he goes on to some more specific things. But the idea is these commandments and these instructions are to give life. They're to shine a light on the path to show you which way you are to go and which way you are not to go to reach the end that you want to reach. And that, that end is life. And that's so important for us as parents to consider the way that we are instructing and raising our children. We're not just trying to arbitrarily make rules so that we have socially well behaved kids. We're trying to direct them down the path of life. We're trying to show them the way to life.

Paul: 20:08

Right. Amen. Amen. So I'll share with, with folks that are listening. I read this years and years ago, and it has always just embedded in my brain. Rules without relationships leads to rebellion. And the rule side of this is absolutely essential. It's in Proverbs, but if you're looking to establish boundaries and rules that are for the good of your child, without, and stealing and developing and nurturing a strong relationship with that child. And that's one of the reasons I offer to dads. I know it gets harder and harder. I do, I do. But if the dad's never home, if the dad's never there, and then when he comes home, he has to be the bad guy, And do the discipline and the discipline has to be done but if he's if he's not around Or he chooses to not be around because he's busy with his hobby or his own personal interest Then it's hard to have both relationship that connects with the rules

Noah: 21:07

Yeah, and that that is a really good point to consider especially as a dad I know that That's that is a tension. That is a struggle that I have felt over the past five years of learning to, to sacrifice those parts of myself and those interests that I have where I need to, in order to fully invest and develop this relationship. And one, because it's good to invest in the relationship, but secondarily, because as a father, the responsibility that we have to raise and to instruct These children will only be helped and enhanced. By a good relationship with the children, it's not going to hurt it. So, all right. Well I think we've, we've gone ahead and pushed over our time a little bit for today, but we'll have principles of parenting part two next week. I'm looking forward to that, Paul.

Paul: 22:05

I am too. Well, thank you for all who are joining us on this journey, this Proverbs project for listening today. Look forward to next week until then we're thankful to the Lord for his blessings and together we are a family. With the help of our Lord, let's stand strong.