10.9 - Marriage

In this special episode, we focus our entire time on discussing practical Biblical principles of marriage – from Creation patterns to apostolic teaching and everywhere between. How will your marriage bring God glory?

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Noah preaches and teaches with the Cedar Park church of Christ in Cedar Park, TX. You can visit our site at: https://www.cedarparkchurchofchrist.org/

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Noah 0:32

Welcome back to the Stand Strong podcast. We're here for a kind of special episode this year. We've been taking a slightly different approach than in previous years. And so we've been doing two episodes a month, one long, one short. And we've had a rhythm for those episodes, different segments of answering questions and talking about what we've been praying about and all those kinds of things. But this month we're going to. Take a break from that and Paul and I have decided that we want to take this longer episode to talk about marriage. Paul and I are at different stages of life. He's a grandfather with no kids left at home, and I am at the front end of Parenthood still with all of my children still being in a young child age and another on the way. And we are gonna have different perspectives about where we are in those stages, and I know that I value any opportunity I have to hear from more experienced fathers than myself. And so we thought it would be nice to just take some time to talk about. Marriage from start to finish, if you wanna put it that way. So if you hear Paul's voice more in this episode than mine, just know that's because it's coming from a place of greater experience. And and I'm happy to sit and listen as much as I can.

Paul 1:55

I don't know about that, you and I had talked about. Maybe a good place to start. So if there's someone listening, you and I have both done some counseling over the years, you very recently. And so you're talking to that couple who is soon to be married, they've never been married before that they're soon to be married. So some things that you would want to make sure that they're gonna hear and understand. You and I both start with scripture. 'Cause we want people to walk away from any and every counseling session. Understanding that this is not our wisdom. This is God's wisdom and God in his word, he speaks an awful lot to the covenant of marriage. And in particular, here's how a man is to thank as the husband. Here is how a woman is to thank as the wife, and a good starting place. Noah for me is just Genesis too. And you look at God is the designer of that relationship. God is the creator. And we find very early on that God is saying, I'm joining this man to this woman for life. And you can connect that to Matthew 19 and what Jesus says, do not let man put us under or separate. And a good starting place is just to help them to appreciate that this is to be permanent.

Noah 3:08

Yeah.

Paul 3:09

And the world doesn't think that way. And so I want them to start off understanding that there is to be a permanence to this marriage. God has himmed them in and they should not view divorce as an option.

Noah 3:22

Yeah.

Paul 3:22

Just the permanence of it.

Noah 3:24

Yeah. Yeah. That's an important baseline to establish. The unfortunate truth is you alluded to how culture has more and more treated marriage and, and we've seen that particularly in American culture. We've probably seen that really degrade since probably about the sixties. You had the sexual revolution and sexual freedom and everything. That's downstream of that. But this is not a new problem. Yeah. Jesus addressed divorce in the first century which some of those discussions were based on. The certificates of divorce that were allowed for in the law of Moses. You can see the complications of the marriage relationship in the patriarchal time, and you see some of the things that went on, even if divorce is not specifically spoken of. You see how how complicated the relationships can become in things like, Jacob with Leah and Rachel and some of those other things. And establishing ahead of time. God's design for marriage. Look how God created it. Look that it was intended to be a lifelong thing that's supported throughout scripture. That helps reset regardless of what culture we're in and regardless of how much we're influenced by the culture around us, which if we're being honest. We're pretty influenced by it.

Paul 4:39

Yes.

Noah 4:40

Especially, you look at statistics about divorce and people who claim the Christian religion aren't doing that much better in divorce statistics than, the rest of culture.

Paul 4:52

No.

Noah 4:52

So that's, I think that's a great place to start. I'll tell you where my mind went when I was thinking of. That other than you, you already took that one God's design from the beginning. But I remember when McKayla and I were getting ready to be married, somebody asked me a very pointed question that just, it was one of those really simple questions that just shook the earth under my feet a little bit. And they said, why are you getting married? What is the purpose? What's the goal? And I don't know if very many young engaged couples have ever put words to because I, they're my best friend. 'cause I love them. Okay. That's why you're wanting to be with this person. But what's your goal? Do you guys have a common goal in this marriage? Do you have something that you want to come from this marriage do? Is there something that this is working toward or not? I think a lot of people just don't think, and when we're 18, 19, 20, 25 even at my age at, 30. It's really easy not to think in those terms. And if you ask someone to give an answer to that and to be able to rest that answer on something from scripture that's gonna go a long way in my experience to make them think on their own about what this relationship's gonna be like.

Paul 6:25

Yeah. A absolutely look. There, there's a passage there's a, there's something stated by Paul in a greater context, but he just mentions this at the church at current in one Corinthians chapter seven. It's better than Mary than to burn. But someone could easily take that and say, okay, why are you wanting you when you get married? You're 19, you're 20 years old, you've never been married before, and you say that this woman is it for you and you love her. Why do you wanna get married? And he says, because I wanna legitimize a sexual relationship is better to marry than to burn. And I wouldn't. I would be careful and cautious. I wouldn't look at that guy and say, what in the world is wrong with you? Because I think God innately has created us. Yeah, we have that desire, right? And he says, you fulfill that desire in the covenant of marriage. And it's a beautiful thing. It's a wonderful thing. It's much deeper than, Hey, I wanna legitimize a sexual relationship with this person and I think. When you're bringing that up, that's a good thing to bring up be because this idea of the intimacy, the sexual part of marriage, while it, God says it's good and it's beautiful if it's treated in an honorable, unselfish way, there's much more to that union than just the physical. Bringing together one man and one woman one flesh kind of concept. So I, I appreciate you talking about that. Another thing, Noah, I bring up is protecting that marriage. Because anything that you value and love, and so this person says, I value him or her and I love them. I'm getting married and it's, I love him and I wanna spend the rest of my life with him. Then whatever you cherish and you value. You do whatever it takes to protect, and that's generally when we start having a discussion about the priority of that relationship. And you make sure that you put proper boundaries in place to protect what you love. Yeah. You don't let anything or anyone come between you and that relationship. And as you begin to see yourself being married three years, four years. Five years you begin to realize how challenging sometimes that can be. Yeah. Without realizing that somebody's trying to come in and drive a wedge in that relationship, there's neglect that's happening. And so I want them to understand that they've gotta do practical things and think in certain ways to prioritize that covenant of marriage.

Noah 8:38

Yeah, excellent point. And one way that I've seen that play out practically and therefore one encouragement that I would give to young people who are thinking about getting married or have recently gotten married is that right now in that early, in those early stages. There is a there's a natural priority that you put on the relationship because of your deep infatuation with the other person. And so the, it's when someone, it's kinda like when someone first starts dating that a lot of times their other friends don't see 'em for a while because they, so there's this natural. Emphasis that we put in those kinds of situations. And as, as life goes on and your marriage grows and things get your life just gets busier and more complex it can be tempting to let that priority slip and you shouldn't do that. But one way that you can put. Practical terms on it that I found is just a reminder that just because you don't feel necessarily the same level of infatuation, we could get into the difference between that and actually true affection and care and love for the person. And even attraction, there's a difference between infatuation and attraction, so even if you don't feel that same level of just, oh, overwhelming infatuation for the person, it's all the more important that we recognize that God's principles for relationship, not just marriage relationship, but our relationship with other people. They all come to bear in marriage. So when Jesus says to love your neighbor, as yourself, look in your own backyard. Look at your spouse. When Jesus says things like do unto others as you would have them do under you unto you. Where's the best and first place you should be applying that in your marriage. In fact I recently told somebody, if you want really good marriage advice, read through the Sermon on the Mount. Matthew five through seven. It's not nec, it's not about marriage, but it's so applicable. Let's see, I wrote down a couple of others going the second mile. Do not be anxious about tomorrow. Boy, oh boy. Can that save a lot of frustration in a marriage if two spouses can agree on, yes, we're uncertain about this, that, and the other thing, but we're gonna trust Matthew chapter six. Do not be anxious about tomorrow. One that got, quoted to me when I was getting ready to be married was agree with your adversary quickly.

Paul 11:18

Yes.

Noah 11:19

And people sometimes take that as being negative about marriage. And here's what I want to be clear about. I'm not being negative about marriage. I love being married and I'm thankful that God has blessed me with marriage all the more that I should treat it. The way that God has instructed me to treat my relationships with other people.

Paul 11:38

Yeah I did a whole series, Noah. On the beatitudes. And so what we were doing is we were first just wanting to understand what Jesus was saying.

Noah 11:49

Yeah.

Paul 11:50

Okay. That I think that's fundamental to just about anything and everything. In the text of scripture, what was being said, what did Jesus want his audience to understand when Jesus said this, blessed are the blessed are for they shall. And then after we did that and I blindsided him. Because I said, we're just gonna work through this now after we've put all this on the board and we've had these discussions. This is what Jesus was communicating. Jesus wanted us to take away from this beatitude this. And I told 'em, I don't want you to make application. Do not make application. And I would respectfully shut them down when they would try to. Because it's hard not to. Then when we finished that, this is what Jesus was saying, then we made everything apply to marriage. So think about this one. Blessed are to those who hunger and thirst after righteousness. What's the promise they shall be filled? How does that relate to marriage?

Noah 12:47

Yeah.

Paul 12:48

And you just, you discover, man, if I'm not hungering for the things, if I don't have an appetite for the things that will. Draw me closer to God and make me a better disciple. To keep me pure in heart, pure in mind, pure in motive to grow my character, to increase my faith, all of that. Then look at what's, that's what's wrong in marriage. That's what's wrong in life. You can't give away what you don't have. You can't be who you are not on the inside.

Noah 13:17

Yeah.

Paul 13:18

Just fake it till you make it. According to statistics. Statistics the Christians, those who claim to be Jesus followers. They're not making it even five years.

Noah 13:29

Yeah.

Paul 13:29

Just fake it till you make it fake. It won't work. They'll be real. So the Sermon on the Mount, the whole sermon is great.

Noah 13:36

Yeah. Yeah. So there's for those listening, there's a little homework for you. Read through the Sermon on the Mount and ins, instead of the normal applications that we draw from the Sermon on the mount. Just ask the question over and over again, how can this apply to marriage? And I love that you brought up that specific beatitude because one of the things that, that I think should come to our minds when we hear that is, okay, here's where our focus is hungry and thirsting for righteousness. That's where I'm gonna find satisfaction. And again, I'm I am the la I get irked at people who are negative about marriage. So I'm the last person that's gonna be negative about marriage, but recognize this. That's where you find satisfaction, not in your spouse. Now you can find a level of satisfaction in your spouse. Certainly you should. God is blessing you with that. But recognize that in the end, where is satisfaction found and hungry and thirsting for God's righteousness? I. It's one of those things where we have to recognize that this marriage relationship, first and foremost is not about, we're good at this part. I think at least we're good at paying lip service to this part. This marriage relationship, first and foremost, is not about me. Okay. We can all say that we can all recognize that's how it should be. The second part of it though, is it's not primarily about the other person either. It's about God first and how we're going to glorify him in our relationship with one another. So God first, then your spouse and then we can get to, in what ways is it supposed to affect me? Again, it's about re-putting that focus on what am I hungry and thirsting after? Where am I gonna find satisfaction? Ultimately, it's in God. And if we can maintain that, that's gonna have applications to our marriage.

Paul 15:32

Yeah, I love it and I love it. Another thing, Noah I wanted us to talk about today in this concept of marriage is kinda marriage advice. So this could be said to someone who is soon to get married. It could also be said to someone who's been married five years. And that is understand that there are differences, there are obvious differences between men and women. One of the reasons I do this in premarital counseling is. 'cause I want to take them where they haven't been and I've been married for a while,

Noah 16:00

right?

Paul 16:01

So they can't know what they don't know. They've never been married before and they can read books and they can talk to parents and grandparents and get good advice, but you're letting them realize so they don't get blindsided. Some of the challenges that come in that marriage fairly early, within the first. Year, certainly five years because men and women are so different.

Noah 16:23

Yeah.

Paul 16:24

Because we are different physically. We need to understand the limitations that will be there because we are different mentally and emotionally we're God created us. Different and so different brings challenges.

Noah 16:40

Yeah.

Paul 16:41

Disagreements are gonna come into that marriage that are due to differences. It doesn't make somebody a bad person necessarily because they're looking at something different. They can't look at it like a man would look at it 'cause they're a woman. She can't look at it like, like a man because she's a woman.

Noah 17:00

Yeah.

Paul 17:01

And di disagreements are gonna come and the, I spend probably as much time on some sexual challenges that come into the marriage and some financial challenges that come into marriage than probably any other. And my experience has been, and having trained myself through, through different things I've read and people that have counseled me is we need to be talking more about the differences that come because, we're just, we're different creatures and there's the differences sexually and the differences that come in because of financial situations. That's a challenge.

Noah 17:40

Yeah. Yeah. It makes me think of going back to Genesis chapter two, how God says that he's gonna make a helper comparable to, or fit to, depending on your translation, fit to the man, to Adam. Now I'm not trying to say that every difference between a husband and wife. Therefore every difference is a positive thing that will only bring good. There are some times where one or both of us, we just got it wrong, right? And that needs to be addressed in its own way, but it does change how you view the differences when you see it as. The fact that my wife does not think on the same wavelength as that I do and comes at things from a different perspective, both because of her gender but also because of her background and how she was raised and her understanding of scripture and her instincts and natural inclinations. The fact that she is therefore coming at things from a different perspective with different concerns and different anxieties than the anxieties I have. Those are all opportunities for us to come to a better end than if it was just me by myself,

Paul 18:51

right?

Noah 18:51

I didn't marry a carbon copy of me and I'm really thankful for that. So we can even help ourselves reframe differences and even disagreements as opportunities to say, God designed us differently and he made you. Somebody fit for comparable to me. And when we reframe it that way, it can lead to a whole lot more positive outcome from those discussions than when we just go why don't you see it my way?

Paul 19:21

Women need to know men. Men need, most men need sexual. And that's a high priority. That is a big need for women, not so much, or it expresses itself differently. While the men need the sexual touching, the women need the non-sexual affection,

Noah 19:38

right?

Paul 19:38

They need to know that they're being cherished that there's the affection there, there's the hug there there's the touch there without the expectation of it leading to something physical. And that's just the difference in men and women. And it's based upon the differences of need. And Noah, you know this 'cause you've done the counseling too with others. A very common need among women right there at the top is security. And so a woman is naturally gonna have anxiety in some areas. She's gonna have a concern about some things that's on a different level. And that's a difference. It's based upon her need and the husband needs to recognize if he's the leader and he is in that relationship and he is to love his wife this way and put her in a position of priority, he needs to learn how to think the way she's thinking. Why is this a big deal to her? It may not be to him. He doesn't respond or react this way. He doesn't think this way. That's fine. You're male,

Noah 20:38

right?

Paul 20:39

But you need to appreciate or try to understand that's what Peter, I think, in a practical way, means when he says, live with your wife one Peter three, seven in an understanding way.

Noah 20:49

You beat me to it.

Paul 20:50

Yeah. Okay. So I'm just gonna toss it back to you. Because see we're, what we've done is we've taken God's wisdom, we've taken a nugget. Of truth in a passage and saying that this is when you're gonna find the application of it, this is when you're gonna find how challenging at times it can be. So knowledge is not the end all, be all. We're pretty smart. We've read a lot of books when it comes to marriage. The application of what we know to be true is challenging.

Noah 21:18

Yeah. First Peter three, seven is such a excellent passage. It almost in my mind, it's Peter's it's almost like it's Peter's specific application of what we call the golden rule, what Jesus said. When he's do unto others as you would have them do unto you. This is like Peter's specific marriage application of that you are to dwell with an understanding of your wife. And he goes on to say, showing them honor, and as heirs, fellow heirs of the grace of life. But the understanding part of that is so incredibly important because I I'll give you an example from parenting. So you probably ran into this as well, but when you are trying to teach your kids the principle, do unto others as you would have them do under unto you. Sometimes there's a little bit of crossed wires in that because it can be understood as do to them what you want done to you. The problem is if you've got, for instance, one kid who is, he's rowdy and loves to wrestle and that kind of thing, and you've got another one who's a little bit more, that's not my thing. That the rowdy kid's gonna go if I were him I would wanna wrestle. And so I'm gonna wrestle, and that's how. But that's not dwelling with understanding. That's imposing our perspective and our desires and our wants on the other person. When Peter says, dwell with your wife in an understanding way, showing honor, it's you are supposed to not do what you would want, but do what they genuinely want. Do what's genuinely best for them. That's the real outcome of doing unto others as you would have done unto you.

Paul 23:08

Yeah. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, so I'm gonna piggyback on that by throwing this out because this was one of the biggest nuggets of wisdom. I got Noah right before I got married, and it connects to, because right before I got married. I was wrestling with a decision. Did I want to preach full time?

Noah 23:24

Yeah.

Paul 23:25

And somebody gave me good advice. They said, look, Paul, one, Peter three and seven is not there to tell you as a man, figure out every woman, get all the books and understand the differences between male, female that's there practically specifically to you. You learn your wife.

Noah 23:48

Yeah.

Paul 23:48

And there's a difference between, and I'm not saying it's not in it's of no value, especially for us who are gonna be mentors and teachers and counselors. But first, I would say to every man and this is a rest of your life, married deal, learn your wife.

Noah 24:08

Yeah.

Paul 24:10

Ask the questions. Work on communication. Learn from your failures, but the obligation in first period three seven is you learn your wife. Yeah. What makes her tick? Where is she vulnerable? What are some things that she is sensitive to just because she's sensitive to it, there are other women that may not be sensitive to that. And what you'll discover is in doing that's what makes communication. So vital to every relationship and every marriage.

Noah 24:43

Yeah. Yeah. I love that emphasis that you're putting through one Peter three, seven, the emphasis of learning your wife. Which, when we put it in those terms, I think a lot of people go yeah, no, duh, but there is a lot out there that deals in generalities and there's wisdom in saying no, you are lifelong. Your lifelong assignment is to learn this woman. Yeah. When you think of it in those terms. It reminds me of something that that I was told and I've passed on to others. 'cause I found it helpful when you view it from that perspective any communication you have, even disagreements, even when you receive criticism or complaint. Warranted or otherwise. What that allows you to do is, again, reframe this. What am I learning about how I can serve this person, how I can please this person, how I can lead this person? Because it's a process of learning. So when they, when your spouse says something to you, they're upset about something or they're asking for something, it's not just. A transactional communication from point A to point B. It also is carrying with IT information about who this person is, what they need, and how you can serve them. That's your job, that's for the rest of your life is to learn this person.

Paul 26:08

Yes. Absolutely. I, before time gets away, maybe this is good 'cause we've been hitting the men pretty good.

Noah 26:15

I wonder why.

Paul 26:16

And again, we hadn't even gone, we hadn't even mentioned Ephesians five. Man, that's a. Key text. Oh yeah. Husbands love your wives. Yes. And he says, love it this. Love your wife this way. How did Christ love the church? Love your wife. Nurture. Cherish her. Treat her like you would your own body. There's the golden rule. There's so much there. Here's a text though. That I want to, I wanna shift the focus onto the ladies, to the wives. We've said this one, Peter three, seven. To the men, we, the Ephesians five to the husbands, to the men. But there's something that's said to the wives Titus two in verse five says. The point is you're training and you're teaching the wife, the woman in the home to be sensible, pure workers at home, kind, subject to their own husbands.

Noah 27:04

Yeah.

Paul 27:05

Usually Noah, what gets the attention in my experience, has been subject to their own husbands and not the workers at home. And what I'm seeing is I'm seeing a generation of women. Who are coming into a relationship of marriage, the covenant of marriage, and they have no idea and they really don't wanna know what it means to be a keeper or manager of that home.

Noah 27:33

Yeah.

Paul 27:34

And that's the subject. Just as much as men need to be taught and there needs to be lessons and there needs to be counsel on practically, how do you love her? How do you treat her with kindness? How do you prioritize her? How do you live with her in an understanding way?

Noah 27:52

Yeah.

Paul 27:52

To the women, what does it mean to manage and keep that home?

Noah 27:56

Yeah.

Paul 27:57

And then one more passage to the women since I'm in Titus two, before he says that in verse five, he says this in verse four, that these young women need to be trained and taught by the old women to love their husbands. Here's what I'm discovering. PE more and more people haven't realized and maybe those listening have, and if you have, wonderful. The word for love in Ephesians chapter five for the husband. Husbands love your wives.

Noah 28:20

Yeah.

Paul 28:21

That's the agape. Agape kind of love this love that is to be taught. By the older women to the young women and the young women. The wives need to have that in the relationship with her husband is a different word. This word there is not the agape or agape love. It's a love of affection. It is. It's the be affectionate in your support towards your husband. Honoring him, appreciating him and his role as the provider, as the leader. Being supportive of his dreams and ambitions and goals to compliment and praise and notice him. That's the application practically, the Holy Spirit uses a different word. When he speaks to the woman than he does when he speaks to the man. Why? Because men and women are different and the roles are different. And so what you would wanna make sure a man understood about love, you would say, women, you need to understand this about love. I'm not saying that the agape doesn't apply to women. But the Holy Spirit was very intentional, and I think it's designed to communicate something because we're different.

Noah 29:29

Yeah.

Paul 29:29

And so I love what one author says about this. The women are to have affection and be supportive of their husbands. That's the love they're Titus to. Verse four, he says this, when criticism and failures have beaten your husband down all day, and he comes home, deflate, deflated like a tire without air. Never does he long for affirmation from his wife and in this moment, learn a thousand different ways to tell your husband he's wonderful. It doesn't get, that's very practical. Good. Yeah. Sound advice. That's why the Holy Spirit is telling us, telling women what he's telling women in Titus two, four, and five.

Noah 30:09

Yeah, those are really good observations. Something that strikes me as you talk about these things it started when you were talking about the keeper of the home or the, managing the home. But when I'm looking over this list and then I compare, for instance the kinds of things that we see admonished to husbands as well is this shouldn't be surprising because God knows what he's talking about. But. These are the very things that it are, that our culture struggles with,

Paul 30:41

right?

Noah 30:41

You think about, so for instance, when even if again I'm, now, I'm gonna blank out on the passage here, but when when scripture tells husbands that they're not to be harsh. And I'm blanking out. Where is that in Titus or

Paul 30:53

Colossians? Three 19.

Noah 30:54

Colossians three. There you go.

Paul 30:55

I only know that because I've got it down.

Noah 30:57

That's right, because it's a parallel passage to what he says to the Ephesians. But it, I remember there in Colossians he adds what he doesn't add in Ephesians to not be harsh. Okay why is that? Because men have, men can have a pro proclivity, excuse me, toward that type of behavior. So we shouldn't be surprised when culture struggles with these things. And when you start viewing it through that lens, you start to see things that are seeping into our relationships from cultural influence, that this is directly. Speaking against, we've like we already said we've spoken a lot to the husbands and quite frankly, I have a lot more to say to husbands than I do to, to wives because I'm a husband. And I feel more equipped to do that. But when I, just to take the passage that you were looking at in Titus chapter two and you look at the type of behavior that, that women are. Admonished to, to live by not only the love of their husbands and children, which you already commented on but to be self controlled. Pure working at home, which you mentioned kind and submissive to their own husbands, like you said, the submissive to your own husbands. That has been spoken about a lot and it's worth speaking about. But for instance, pure or chaste. I'm gonna go out on a limb here. Something that I've seen on the rise over the past 10 years is communities, especially online of wives and mothers who speak openly about impure things. And particularly that they don't keep their relationship, their sexual relationship with their husbands holy and pure. And they, there's, and I don't know if you're aware of this, but there's whole communities out there of not, we're not talking 50 shades of gray okay. Type literature, but there's whole communities of Christian women engaged in books that have. Very sexually evocative writing in there about, and it's all, they're just reading it, it's just a romance novel or it's a fantasy novel with romance embedded in it. But they're getting their satisfaction of relation in this third person view in these books. I'm not saying men never engage in this, but there are communities. Online reading these, discussing these is that pure, is that respectful of husbands and the relationship that you have with your husband? Again, I know I'm going out on a limb, but when I'm reading this kind of thing and I see that the way that our culture is bending what a wife and a mother is to look like, this is one way in which it's happening. And you could go through. You could go through the rest of the list and find those same kinds of things where culture is pointing women in one direction and saying it's okay. And that's not what wives are called to in Christ.

Paul 34:06

Yeah that's a whole nother subject. And I'm you bringing it up. I'll say this and then close the door on that. Unfortunately. We know this. We could give countless number of scriptures that would support this principle, but we know this, we know that we are influenced by what we take in. What we read, what we share, all the things are going to influence our mind. We always move in the direction of our mind. And so sometimes the flesh dominates and sometimes the desires are less than holy, are less than what is good for the growing of that relationship and that marriage. Sometimes we see relationships. In unhealthy ways because we're influenced by what we see and hear. Men are visually stimulated women, not so much visually, so they're gonna read it. They're gonna get in chat rooms, they're gonna connect with other people. And we've heard this, don't be poisoned by what's in the world. Garbage in, garbage out,

Noah 35:10

right?

Paul 35:10

You become what you think. We know all that. We've heard all that, but we still find ourselves. Allowing our minds to be influenced in ways that are negative impure. And again, here's a principle, you reap what you sow. So we need to be sowing to the spirit. And when you find yourself moving in a direction that is very unhealthy. Have the courage and the humility to say I a turn about face. Which is repentance. And God will help you and there are people out there that'll help you and walk you through that. But boy it's so necessary.

Noah 35:53

Yes.

Paul 35:54

And that usually comes, Noah, that usually comes in about year three, four or five. Where the outside influences and those kinds of things start to creep in.

Noah 36:05

I am to put a, an application or maybe a positive application of all of this into our marriages, and I was trying to remember the exact reference. I know that it's in Matthew and it's in Luke, and I'm forgetting the exact chapter in verse, but along with the concepts of. Garbage in, garbage out. You reap what you sow. Jesus says out of the overflow or out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks. So here's a positive application of that. If we're, if we want to improve our marriage relationship and we want to improve how we communicate to one another, and we want to improve our ability to lift one another up, then let's put things in our hearts and in our minds. That overflow in that way. And I'm not saying,

Paul 36:54

oh, just think positive thoughts,

Noah 36:56

that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is fill, let's fill our hearts with good, with the Philippians four, eight type of things, right? Where, whatever is pure, whatever's lovely, whatever's good, whatever's noble, whatever is I'm, see now I'm not, any other day I'd be able to quote that entire section and now I can't but think on these things, meditate on these things. Th there is something to be said about just filling our lives with the goodness of God in a very real way. Through p prayer, through reading, through through meditation, through observing his creation and appreciating the beauty of it. Those good, noble things you fill your heart up with that. Then see how you speak to your spouse.

Paul 37:41

Good advice. Here's what's crippling our marriage and that, so I'll, I it's okay. I could be the guy who's tagged as being too critical and negative in this podcast, but I've seen too much and I've been guilty. Just the ignorance, Noah? The, the mentality that says, I, I don't want, I don't wanna learn. I don't wanna learn. And there's no excuse for that in this age where there's countless resources out there available. And I'm concerned because I am seeing a generation that's growing up, and so look at the guys. This is typical ideas. The guys that are about to get married and they've got energy and zeal moving in a good direction in their twenties, early mid twenties, late twenties, early thirties about how to succeed financially, how to, how to make your first million and how to grow a business and look. Keeping those things in check, look and they're grabbing every resource. They're attending seminars, they're reading the books, they're going to people that are. Tried and true and tested and say, gimme your advice. They want to no. And then usually with the women it's the health. It's, eat this, don't eat this. And what are we putting into our bodies? And now thinking I want to take care of my body because I, I would like to bring children into the world. And now that I'm bringing children into the world, okay, what should I do to this child that's born, care for it this way, care for it that way. Make sure they feed this way and they they're getting this and it's all about grabbing everything and anything we can. That's good resources to set us up to succeed. Are we doing that in our marriages? Are we going to the seminars when, local churches say we're having this guy for a weekend, or here's a seminar, or here's a podcast, or here's a great book to read. Or here are these resources, there's a wealth of information out there. Why am I sharing this? Because a good friend of mine who's been doing this for 40 plus years. Told me a couple years ago that they're gonna stop doing some of these seminars because people just don't come. The material they put together, the wealth of knowledge that they have, that they want to share people aren't interested in.

Noah 39:57

Yeah.

Paul 39:58

And then all of a sudden, five years into the marriage, 10 years into the marriage, it starts falling apart. Somebody said, you could have done something about this 10 years ago, five years ago. And the second thing besides ignorance, Noah, is just selfishness. And that's why Jesus said, deny yourself.

Noah 40:16

Yeah.

Paul 40:16

Crucify self. That's hard.

Noah 40:18

Yeah. Recently I was having a discussion about the the core of sin. Where do all of our sins come from? And, one person was saying all sin is idolatry. Fundamentally, it's putting something above God. Amen. Amen. And then somebody else was saying in the end, whenever you worship something other than God, ultimately what's on the pedestal is yourself. So pride is the sin. Amen. And why? Why are we proud? To serve ourselves. That's pride is our way of justifying self-service, selfishness. It's all saying the same thing. It's all the same answer. Slightly different ways of framing it, but selfishness and pride are, they will rip us apart from the inside out and they will rip our marriages. Apart from the inside out. And it's only and it plays into the ignorance side of things too, because only if we're willing to humble ourselves enough to recognize that we are ignorant in some areas. We need to learn, we need to grow, we need to improve until we lower those barriers and we take our pride out of the situation. We're not gonna wanna listen to anybody.

Paul 41:39

We

Noah 41:39

will get it figured out. We'll get it figured out. And that is toxic to a marriage.

Paul 41:44

Yeah. Real quick, let me plug this. Okay. Let me be positive. So having been a part of Cedar Park been a part of this church for nearly 22 years, a very positive, commendable thing about a lot of marriages and a lot of people at Cedar Park is the humility I've seen, the courage that I've seen and know in those who have been married that when they reach an impasse, and they're good people, but they're stuck. They see something differently. They can't get past this. They've got the courage and the humility to say, we're gonna go get help.

Noah 42:28

Yeah.

Paul 42:29

And that's a wonderful thing. Two things about that. First, the people here who go get help. And secondarily, the culture that's been created in the Cedar Park Church by leadership in the past and by leadership. Currently that says that's a good thing. We support you to do that. We will help you to do that. Because that's not, that doesn't exist knowing in every church. Yeah. There's almost Ooh, what's wrong with you? You had to go get counseling.

Noah 42:57

Yeah.

Paul 42:58

Ooh, yeah. What is going on? Oh no, you marriage, is that bad? You're going. We need to stop doing that.

Noah 43:07

Yeah.

Paul 43:07

And we need to start helping each other and realize that we need help. The best marriages need help. And that is a good and wonderful thing. And so I'm just, I'm praising people here in the Cedar Park Church who've done that, who are doing that, who will do that. That's a great thing.

Noah 43:25

Yeah. No I appreciate that. Because there, there definitely is and I've seen this stigma, I think become less of an issue, but there's both culturally, broadly speaking, culturally and within within churches there's a stigma against that very idea. And I think that stigma may be based on, certainly there have been bad. There have been bad counselors Yes. And there's been worldly advice that has been pedaled as being the right way. And it's contrary to what God would say, but the idea the concept of seeking counsel for your marriage because you want it to glorify God, that concept is extremely biblical.

Paul 44:13

Yes.

Noah 44:13

And and should not be. Should not be discouraged. I'm looking at the time we've, we're not quite the time yet, but I don't want us to be unaware of that. I thought maybe a good way to there's so much more we could talk about marriage. We, I think beforehand we had talked about trying to talk through different, maybe some different stages of marriage and I'm not sure we made it out of the first 10 years of marriage. So there's a whole lot more we could talk about, but. If you had one, one more verse or one more encouragement or challenge or thought that you wanted to give somebody regarding marriage whether it's someone who's planning to get married is still in the first 10 years of marriage, or maybe has just been in, in a trough, a discouraging season of life that you wanted to say, just a reminder about marriage. Do what comes to mind.

Paul 45:06

So marriage is relationships which involve people and two, two imperfect people. In an imperfect world, there's your challenge, but get back to the core concept. It's people and it's relationships. So what is gonna set us up to succeed in relationships? It's first and fundamentally my personal relationship with God. And so getting to know God better and growing in my relationship with God is gonna make me a better person and is gonna put me in a position to see some things that I might not be able to see. And prayer, Noah. Just to, to those who are newlyweds, to those who've been married one year to those who've been married 50 years. Prayer is a key component to making sure that the relationships in that covenant are successful. And I promise you, I don't understand it, but God makes a promise. I don't understand every promise God makes when I say I don't understand it. What I mean is I don't understand how God will fulfill that, right? But he's faithful. He makes a promise. He'll keep it. So here's the thing, if you get in your secret place and it's just you and God. God knows everything. You can't fool God,

Noah 46:17

right?

Paul 46:18

Start confessing it. Start talking to him about it. Start being open with him, and then say, God, I need you. How? What am I missing? Am I wrong? Start saying all that. Watch what God will do to your heart. Watch what he'll, how he'll change you from the inside out. And God starts doing things that are inexplicable to me. But that's who he is. He wants what's best for you and your marriage. Grow the relationship by growing you and stay in prayer with God.

Noah 46:47

Amen. Amen. God wants your marriage to succeed.

Paul 46:51

Yes. Yep. He's pretty good at that. He's better than anybody else. He's the designer.

Noah 46:57

Yep. Yep. Oh, man. This has been a good discussion, Paul. I'm glad, I believe this was originally your suggestion and I'm glad that you made this suggestion because this has been a blessing to me, and I pray that for those who are listening along that they'll find. They'll find the truth of scripture resonating through the words that we've that we've said today in the discussion that we've had.

Paul 47:20

Yeah, so full disclosure, so you said it was my idea. Here's why it was my idea. I wanna talk about marriage. This is our last podcast together.

Noah 47:29

Yeah.

Paul 47:29

Potentially. I don't know. But because I'm leaving and going to a different work in a different location and what the Lord wants me to do somewhere else. But the reason I wanna talk about marriage is because you and I have been podcasting man for a while.

Noah 47:43

Yeah, it's been over three years now,

Paul 47:45

and I also wanted one, the last podcast to be on this because I wanted people who listened to this podcast to understand and appreciate. One of the things I value about you and Mikayla is of course, I know how you were both were raised. But this is an important subject to you. And not because you're a preacher, you're not prioritizing your marriage because I'm preaching and the brethren of supporting me, and man, I guess I need to, my marriage probably needs to be in a good place. No, Noah, McKayla are concerned about their marriage because of who they are. And God is gonna uniquely bring you and McKayla in a position because of what you've decided to commit your life to. In doing the Lord's work in this, you're gonna have opportunities come before you to change people's lives by bettering their marriage. And I don't think we talk as much about this as we should. And so I thought. What is the last thing I want to tag? Team Noah with you in this marriage? It's marriage.

Noah 48:47

I appreciate that. So yes, for those who are listening, if your jaw dropped, I'm sorry. So Paul is moving, he has agreed to work with a church in Beaumont, Texas. Which is what, four hours from here? Four hours? Yeah, four hours from here. So believe it or not, he's not gonna drive back over. Every couple weeks to record with me.

Paul 49:09

We talked about how do we make this thing work?

Noah 49:11

Yeah.

Paul 49:12

Hey, we may tag team in the

Noah 49:13

future. Yeah. Yeah. We don't know what the future holds. But for that being said if you know Paul or if you can get his contact information and want to express your appreciation for the work that he's done here in Cedar Park and the work that he's done on this podcast, I encourage you to do that. I know. I appreciate very much the work that he has been doing and will continue to do just in a different area. With that being said, you probably have some questions about the future of this podcast since Paul will be departing. So in lieu of the regular second episode, we did a little bit different first episode for this month. The second episode is also going to be different. The second episode is just gonna be me and I'm gonna try to give you an. A fairly brief episode, an idea of where this podcast is gonna go moving forward, at least for the time being. Some plans that I've got in the pipeline so that we can continue what I hope has been a good and productive work through this podcast. So thank you much very much for listening, Paul. Thank you for being a part of this podcast for over three years.

Paul 50:19

It's been a blessing. It's been a blessing, and thanks to the listeners and those who have encouraged us in this good work.

Noah 50:25

Yes, very much with that being said, thank you for continuing to listen. I'll see you again next week while I won't see you and you won't see me, but you'll hear my voice next week. And until then, I pray that you continue to stand strong.